Who has finished? [SPOILERS]

Discussion of anything else related to the game: tips, quests, the story, and so on.

Re: Who has finished? [SPOILERS]

Postby stoneybaby » Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:10 pm

I beat the full campaign by multi-boxing, or maybe as it would be more appropriately put for Conclave, multi-browsering. I used a Beaon, Vanguard, Runecaster, and True Bow. During my previous group questing, I found the Rogue under-powered compared to other classes, so I skipped it for my play-through. I absolutely loved the campaign, and look forward to more levels, quests, and challenges. Some specific feedback follows.

Browsers
I used Chrome, IE10, FF, and SeaMonkey (Mozilla). There were noticeable differences between the browsers response times. IE was the slowest (surprise! lol), followed by SeaMonkey, FireFox, and Chrome coming in as the fastest. About halfway through I abandoned IE and started using two different Chrome instances, taking advantage of their separate profile feature. However, Chrome had an interesting occasional issue: As I moved encounters forward the text and choices would update but the playfield would remain static. A quick refresh of the window would solve the problem. It happened three times that I can think of, across multiple days of play, and only on Chrome.

Reknown Disparity
Around level 7 I started to notice a distinct disparity between my characters in terms of Reknown usage. My Vanguard used every last bit at the Vault of Arms. My Beacon fairly well utilized the points, but my True Bow and Runecaster were left with a plethora of points that they couldn't use. And that was with all the distinctions that awarded additional items. Finding loot is always fun, but buying loot you earned is much more rewarding.

Difficulty
I found the quests to be a good mix of moderately challenging, difficult, and downright friggin' hardmode. Great job on that!


I never thought about soloing, so I'm going to give that a go with a Rogue.
Thank you for a great game, and I can't wait to see more quests!
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Re: Who has finished? [SPOILERS]

Postby qxface » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:20 pm

A friend and I finished with our double rogue duo. I had a great time and really love the game.

Complaints:

Cloaking is overpowered in an all-rogue team.
It's crazy that two rogues can go Into the Shadows on the first round, position themselves just right, off-hand attack then shadow strike!
You absolutely murder an enemy or two without any possibility for them to retaliate at all.
More enemies need to reveal cloaked characters, or at least move around, hopefully bumping into hidden characters. This might make cloaking really terrible in a party with non-cloaking, non-rogues, though. It shouldn't be THAT hard to make enemies use their revealing skills when there are no visible enemies. But you tell me, you programmed the game.
(PS, it was great fun watching enemies get shredded to ribbons by Team Meat Grinder!)

Equipment choices need some real work.
Charnish Quillblade does 2-7 damage and gives +1 to hit and costs 125 renown. The "best" main hand weapon, the Steel Backsword, does 4-9 damage, give no bonus to hit and costs 750 renown! That means I NEVER upgraded my main hand weapon.
Eventually, I found the Venomous Shortsword (4-7 damage, corrupting, envenomed, ZERO renown). I did switch to that, it felt like BARELY an upgrade.
In the end, I had NOTHING to spend my renown on (aside from the Stiletto). I upped my fortitude just so I could pay some renown fro the Meirscale Cuirass and I still have 1100 renown left over.

Equipment is something that needs work across all classes.
Beacons can't equip a shield, even at the expense of having no weapon in their main hand. They seem like the "Tankiest" class, the one that should be able to get the highest defense/armor/HP. Please tell me they'll be able to get a shield/sword combo when you make the Heavy Blade skill.
The loot items that you find could use a renown cost. At ZERO cost, they're too much better than any store alternatives. It's nice that the exciting items you find are better than the plain old purchasable items in the store, but it makes for really boring equipping choices.

Please let us sort and filter the armory by equipment type.

Voting is fun! Except when 3 players vote for one choice and then wait around for a day for the 4th player to time out. Can't we move on to playing the game when the vote is determined?

The tool tips for abilities need some updating and better description. Blade Dance says it requires "Level 10 Light Blade". What this really means is it requires CHARACTER level 10 AND the Light Blade Skill (which really doesn't have a level). I thought, since my character sheet literally tells me Light Blade checks depend on your Agility trait" that if I got my Agility to 10, my Light Blade skill would be 10 and Blade Dance would be unlocked. That's not the case. I still had to wait for CHARACTER level 10 to grab Blade Dance. During my entire playthrough, I had been pumping Agility, hoping to get to Blade dance as soon as possible.
I don't think the mechanics themselves need to change, but they DO NEED some better explanation.

I really did have a great time playing and I already have 3 other characters going. Good job!
qxface
 
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Re: Who has finished? [SPOILERS]

Postby Danes » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:24 pm

qxface wrote:Equipment choices need some real work.
Charnish Quillblade does 2-7 damage and gives +1 to hit and costs 125 renown. The "best" main hand weapon, the Steel Backsword, does 4-9 damage, give no bonus to hit and costs 750 renown! That means I NEVER upgraded my main hand weapon.
Eventually, I found the Venomous Shortsword (4-7 damage, corrupting, envenomed, ZERO renown). I did switch to that, it felt like BARELY an upgrade.
In the end, I had NOTHING to spend my renown on (aside from the Stiletto). I upped my fortitude just so I could pay some renown fro the Meirscale Cuirass and I still have 1100 renown left over.


+1 to hit is different from +1 to damage, in case you were confused. That means you have +7% chance of hitting, making a solid hit, and making a critical hit. The way damage works in the game makes high max damage a very important factor when choosing a weapon. If you make a solid hit with Charnish Quillblade, you deal 5~7 damage, whereas if you make a solid hit with Steel Backsword, you deal 7~9 damage. Since rogues can pump points into agility, most of your hits will be either solid or critical. This makes Steel Backsword much better than Charnish Quillblade.
Also, Venomous Shortsword makes the enemy poisoned, which lowers the fortitude of the character by 1. Since fortitude determines health, it can lower the enemy's maximum health to kill the enemy.

Although, I agree with you in that we could use even better equipment (1000-renown tier, perhaps?), and renown requirement for treasure items (aka loots). That would mean more careful item management.
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Re: Who has finished? [SPOILERS]

Postby mrmewtwo » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:44 am

qxface wrote:In the end, I had NOTHING to spend my renown on (aside from the Stiletto).


there's a familiar feeling! :lol: especially for beacons, by the end, the only thing i'm spending renown on is the amulet of the mogru dauth.

speaking of beacons, my build doesnt concern itself with defense at all. they've got treasures and a setup that makes them HUGE damagers. here:

forgeborn beacon, all stat boosts go into strength,
10th level, (10) + 10 strength (10) + ebon glaive (3) + heroic strike (3) + inspired (1) + golden platecoat (1) = 28 as an attack score, with +5 damage

i haft blow and heroic strike anything that comes near me, so i dont take much damage at all.
Hold on... Another player has acted!
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Re: Who has finished? [SPOILERS]

Postby qxface » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:56 am

Danes wrote:
+1 to hit is different from +1 to damage, in case you were confused. That means you have +7% chance of hitting, making a solid hit, and making a critical hit. The way damage works in the game makes high max damage a very important factor when choosing a weapon. If you make a solid hit with Charnish Quillblade, you deal 5~7 damage, whereas if you make a solid hit with Steel Backsword, you deal 7~9 damage. Since rogues can pump points into agility, most of your hits will be either solid or critical. This makes Steel Backsword much better than Charnish Quillblade.
Also, Venomous Shortsword makes the enemy poisoned, which lowers the fortitude of the character by 1. Since fortitude determines health, it can lower the enemy's maximum health to kill the enemy.

Although, I agree with you in that we could use even better equipment (1000-renown tier, perhaps?), and renown requirement for treasure items (aka loots). That would mean more careful item management.


I think +1 To Hit is worth 2 extra damage since missing stinks and a critical hit applies your weapon's effect (bleeding in this case, which gives at least an extra 2 damage and possibly much more).
Although, like you said, rogues can pump their Agl so the extra To Hit might not come in to play that often.

At the very least, I think it's fair to say that the Charnish Quillblade and the Steel Backsword are pretty comparable. And one is the second "worst" weapon you can get and costs 125 Renown, while the other is the "best" weapon you can get and costs 750. The Steel Backsword isn't six times better than the Charnish Quillblade, for sure.

I would like to see multiple "lines" of weapons, like the Beacons get.
At almost every renown tier, the beacon can choose between a bardiche that does more damage but adds encumbrance, a spetum which does less damage but adds defense, and a glaive which is right in the middle and doesn't have any special properties. Something like this would be really fun for ALL classes.
For rogues, this would mean that I could keep upgrading along the "Quillblade" line, getting a little more damage and keeping (or possibly adding to) the To Hit bonus. You could upgrade along the "Backsword" line (basically the equipment that exists now) and keep adding damage each upgrade.

And this should be pretty easy to do. 10x10 already has equipment working, so this isn't adding and new functionality to the game. All this would take is adding/updating a few rows in a database. I think it would give a huge benefit based on the time it would take.
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Re: Who has finished? [SPOILERS]

Postby Skjaldbakka » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:10 pm

+1 to hit is certainly comparable to +2 damage, in that saying +2 damage is better than +1 to hit is a comparison. Once you understand the math of how the game engine works, it is pretty clear that +2 is dramatically better, and well worth the increased renown cost. That it is well worth the renown cost is subjective. That +2 damage is better than +1 to hit, given the game mechanics, is just a matter of understanding the math.
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Re: Who has finished? [SPOILERS]

Postby qxface » Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:42 pm

Skjaldbakka wrote:+1 to hit is certainly comparable to +2 damage, in that saying +2 damage is better than +1 to hit is a comparison. Once you understand the math of how the game engine works, it is pretty clear that +2 is dramatically better, and well worth the increased renown cost. That it is well worth the renown cost is subjective. That +2 damage is better than +1 to hit, given the game mechanics, is just a matter of understanding the math.


I disagree. In our play through, my friend and I killed (almost) every enemy in 1 round of attacking. A little extra damage wouldn't make a difference, but missing an entire attack really screws things up.
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Re: Who has finished? [SPOILERS]

Postby Danes » Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:12 pm

qxface, did you not get Eidstone dagger?
It's a treasure item that gives +2 to hit. If you prefer high hit scores, this would have been the best weapon for you, but I see you didn't mention it. I think you'll love this weapon the best!
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Re: Who has finished? [SPOILERS]

Postby Skjaldbakka » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:40 pm

I hope we get more content soon. I've just about done every quest with all 10 of my characters at this point. Not much left to do after that.
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Re: Who has finished? [SPOILERS]

Postby Danes » Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:33 pm

Skjaldbakka wrote:I hope we get more content soon. I've just about done every quest with all 10 of my characters at this point. Not much left to do after that.


I'm replaying older quests with the worst equipment. You know, so the power comes from within, rather than fancy items.
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