Feedback time!

Discussion of anything else related to the game: tips, quests, the story, and so on.

Feedback time!

Postby Songyu » Fri May 01, 2015 6:07 pm

Heyho,

so I finished the game and although I bought the game on impulse it was totally worth it! Cheers for that!
However I'd still like to address a few issues I had with it. And since I bought it, you have to read my piece. :P


Possible combat AI improvements:
Have AI move away from harmful/negative tiles. To be honest, I don't understand why this isn't a thing
already? If I go unnoticed, enemies just stay ontop of tiles with fe. fire until they die, eternity or have a new
target to move towards to.

AI with ranged weapons should try to disengage from close combat. Apparently ranged weapon get
a penalty on close combat, so they should probably use their minor action to move out of it?

Multiple AI units should try to flank if they have the same target. Pretty self explanatory, I think.
Might tie in with a difficulty option as further down.


Cycling through previous/next events
In combat after my turn I generally wanted to just read up on what the enemies did until my next turn.
However, individually clicking on 'Next event' alwasy made the GUI display each single event. This became
annoying after a while because I only get to use my next action until all events were displayed. Maybe it's just
childishly impatient of me, but it would be great that if I click on 'Next event' it would cancel the display of the
running event, jump to the end of it and display the newly selected one. But I could imagine tha,t depending on
how your engine works, it might not be possible to achieve wihout great effort...

More/Better replay value
The stories, albeit exceptionally well written, seem very linear. It's not really a problem (game is well worth the
money), but I don't see much replay value since most choices, from what I tried anyway, just end up in some
battle or avoid them instead.
So unless there are choices that create drastic differences in story, there should be at least some form of
achievements to get after you cleared the game. As it stands, I don't see a point in playing it again,
except to experience how it is with another class.


Inventory management
Would be great if the inventory management had a better UI. Currently the scrolling is really... fiddly or
something. The item lists could be more concise(?), fe. it could just be mere icons and you get further
information on an item by hovering over it? And if indeed such simpler lists, then drag&drop would work better?


Option to increase difficulty
I played through the game in solo. When I started I figured I'd have to play with other players eventually.
But after I got my tactics down pretty well, the game became kind of easy. So it'd be great if we could adjust
the difficulty to our liking so that maybe we'd be forced to play with other people to get foward?


Boss fight bug?
In the boss fight of the last quest there were two ghostly guards (or something), however they never attacked
me and just stood there using the defense thingy as minor action until I killed them. This allowed me to heal a
little since they blocked the way for the other enemies to get to me. So yeah. :(


That's it for now. I think I missed something but oh well.

Thanks for a fun game! It's well written and has a beautiful UI and graphics (especially like the map and combat
tiles & sprites) . Although simple, the character progression and combat were both fun to play with.
And the music too! So pleasant to iisten to!
I suppose I'll come back again when you've added new content, eventually, hopefully. :)


Until then: good luck with your steam release and
kind regards
Song

Edit: Just realized the game has a 'Feedback' link in the top navigation. Dunno how I missed that, especially since
it is right beside the Forum link. Sorry. :(
Songyu
 
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Re: Feedback time!

Postby derek » Wed May 06, 2015 8:45 pm

Thanks for the feedback and compliments, Songyu! No worries about posting here rather than on the Feedback site; we're always happy to get detailed comments on the game.

A few quick responses:

  • Possible combat AI improvements: Making the AI a bit smarter is on our to-do list.
  • Cycling through previous/next events: This is on our to-do list too. Unlike the AI, this is probably a pretty quick change that we might get to soon.
  • More/better replay value: This is a tricky one for us. We've long wanted to have more divergent stories, but we just haven't had the resources required to create the necessary forks and alternate paths. We're hoping that'll change after the Steam release. In addition, we've been working on an idea for dynamically generated adventures. That's in the very early stages, though; we're not yet sure if it'll pan out.
  • Inventory management & option to increase difficulty: Noted!
  • Boss fight bug: Hmm, that's no good. That's the last combat that should be anticlimactic! I'll take a look.
derek
 
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Re: Feedback time!

Postby Zephkiel » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:53 am

I may be beating a dead horse, considering there is no news whatsoever in here or on steam...

- The loot management. you don't get to choose what you want, and you are limited in the loot you can carry by loot, i mean treasure). It's really crappy...At least let us discard the unwanted loot to try our luck again.
- Class balance is horrible. i can just snipe anything with a true bow or go rogue with huge dps+ dodge, and go stealth and spam recover if needed, or having an hell of a time with a vanguard or a beacon. I dislike runecaster so i can't tell for him. Even though endgame, the potential of a vanguard is enrmous, it just can't manipulate the field well, a shame for a tactician.
- Why does the rogue have his 2 trait tied to agility? It's broken. :|
Zephkiel
 
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Re: Feedback time!

Postby derek » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:39 am

Hi Zephkiel. Things have been a little quiet lately because I'm traveling at the moment.

Regarding class balance, are you playing solo or in a group? Because we scale encounters based on your party's size, some archetypes are a little stronger in groups than solo, and vice versa. That said, we're considering some tweaks, particularly to the Rogue.

We're planning to replace a couple of discoverable items (aka loot) that are proving to be underwhelming. We might also add the ability to drop items from your Stash, though we don't want players to have to spend much time on inventory management. Our intent is for each character to only discover items that are relevant to their archetype when possible, with the Vault's items available to supplement the ones you discover.

Thanks for the feedback!
derek
 
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Re: Feedback time!

Postby Zephkiel » Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:53 am

Hello, thanks for the answer, and i hope you're travels are going well.

For the truebow, in solo or in group. I play solo or up to a 3 man party and he just rack up the most kill, without even moving sometimes. And not taking any damage. It's like playing on easy mode.
In solo, the combination of dash + running shot make it uncatchable. There are some instance where the game spam ranged ennemies where it's hard, but even there, a melee class will have great trouble (Los is your friend in those case).
Also, find the center double dip, doing + 2 damage to every source of damage. example, if you have the bow that does 2 fire damage, they'll also have +2 damage, meaning that find the center give +4 damage, unless i'm wrong somewhere.

On the cons side, the truebow does not really have good loots on the field. On the other hand, he doesn't really need it, since he got everything in the vault, where the other char are limited due to the loot restriction mechanics, wich is really lackluster.

That's my opinion, and i aso think that AGI based classes take the cake, since AGI cover their offense and defense, all wrapped up in the same stats.

Not related, but since you talked about it, the scaling mechanics is weird.

For example, on a solo encounter, when they are 2 mobs, they are only 3 with 2 people. What i mean is the more people = the easier, if those said people are a bit smart and spread the damage taken evenly. But if there is one melee char and all the res is raned, the melee char won't be able to do much in some encouner, because if he die, everyone fails, making him see the other player shoot ranged attack while he wait.
Zephkiel
 
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Re: Feedback time!

Postby Zephkiel » Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:21 pm

Is there anything done yet?

Seriously, thing like the one before the Seed's encounter (2 melee + 1 eye + cult leader) or the water elemental (yay for at will attack with huge damage, range and pushback...did you just make it infuriating on purpose?) are just impossible if not downright cheesing the game as class other than AGI based / ranged. Seriously, how do you expect to win as a straight melee class wich is not that much durable than a squishy against 2 melee + 2 caster ? especially given their damage.

On the other hand, kiting forever with the true bow or just roflstomping with the rogue is brainless. There is no strategy involved, it's just downright huge numbers against yourself with no way out if you do not have a gateway (stealh / recover / lethal attack afterward, or kitting with dash + running shot for example....)

Honestly, if we dont take into account those particuliar fight, the classes are fine, except those AGI based ones.
Zephkiel
 
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Re: Feedback time!

Postby Zephkiel » Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:54 am

First fight of Strange bedfellow :

4 ennemies with ranged capabilities, debuff, crowd control, and poisonning. I play with line of sight on my vanguard, i get wrecked.

I come with an archer with one less level and almost as much melee and range dodge while still having 1 damage reduction, i just spam 14 damage arrow from 5 square away, with burning and bleeding to boot. Could do it all day. Easy.

I take it.
You just want heavy melee char to be non existent or to be power leveled while sitting on the bench, because even if they take part of battle in a party with ranged character, due tu the failing when death occurs, they can just wait for the ennemy to come while being picked off one by one by the true bow, since else way, they'll just be focused down and offer a game over screen. Shield wall bot much.
Wha's the point of doing 7 damage per hit on average with my thunderous hammer at melee range, when taking as much damage from the guy i'm hitting, not even talking about his buddy, while i can do more from the safety of range or invisibility (with infinite healing unbothered).
The only redeeming feature are armor and shield, and lets be honest, they are worthless in most of the case.

Let's not talk about a full rogue party, stealthing and alla attacking at the same time, rendering opposition useless whatever you throw at them.


EDIT:

Ok i've passed the fight.
The answer?
Respec, everything in AGI.

Seriously, and i'll be rude, fuck that. AGI is too strong of a stat. It trump armor and fortitude for tanking, it's also the bow/stealth class attack's attributes, it's an all in one stat. Even on the warrior class, it's the strongest attribute.
I wanted to play a juggernaut with my vanguard.
With how the encounter are made, and how the mechanics works, i'm just playing a low damage dealer with just have to put everything on dodge with shield and AGI to survive.


On an semi unrlated note, tactics is really a sucky skill, especially when we consider that it depends from insight. 95% of those skill are really niche, and unworth to take.
And what is most aggravating, is that the upgrade of charge, wich is a bludgeon skill, become a tactic skill, so it does not depend of strentgh anymore, wich is a massive nerf.
Zephkiel
 
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Re: Feedback time!

Postby derek » Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:28 pm

Zephkiel, thanks for the detailed feedback.

First fight of Strange bedfellow : 4 ennemies with ranged capabilities, debuff, crowd control, and poisonning. I play with line of sight on my vanguard, i get wrecked.

Certain encounters are naturally more difficult for one archetype or another, but it sounds like we've got a couple that are more frustrating than we'd intended, at least for soloing Vanguards. I'll see if we can review them sooner rather than later.

I take it. You just want heavy melee char to be non existent or to be power leveled while sitting on the bench, because even if they take part of battle in a party with ranged character, due tu the failing when death occurs, they can just wait for the ennemy to come while being picked off one by one by the true bow, since else way, they'll just be focused down and offer a game over screen. Shield wall bot much.

We definitely want Vanguards to be effective if they focus on Strength and two-handed weapons. And not just as a damage sink, but as an offensive force to be reckoned with.

It's true, as you point out, that Agility aids the True Bow and Rogue both offensively and defensively. One of the ways we balance that is by giving an additional Strength-based damage bonus to Bludgeon and Polearm attacks, but perhaps we need to do more. That's something I'll look at when I review the encounters you mentioned.

One other thing I can say is that we've been considering a change to how the unnoticed condition works. We initially designed it to last indefinitely because we wanted it to feel more like you were hiding in shadows, but that does open up a loophole for all-Rogue parties to spend as long as they want recovering sometimes. We'll keep you posted on what we decide to do there.
derek
 
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Re: Feedback time!

Postby Zephkiel » Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:04 am

Hello,

Thanks for the answer.
I feel a bit akward, i kinda snapped. Sorry.

Without my 2nd account with my true bow, never could i have succeeded some encounter with my vanguard, it's a fact. Most of the time, the damage my vanguard put are enough though i feel they are kinda low, although his stuff is very very good (i picked the stuff on the loot table on the wiki and the forum, etc), wich is not the case with the true bow, that does not need it. If i had played "normally", since how the loot works, i would be a crappy vanguard (it's not a tale - most melee char are more gear dependant) and i would just have abandonned long ago.
If you really want to see what an infuriating combat is, at least in my opinion, as a Vanguard, try any with more than 2 ennemies with ranged capabilites, or the worst of them, the water elemental who just push you back and do a whooping 14 (? i d'ont remember well but it was insane) damage per turn. Try them as a standard warrior archetype (STR / FOR), and you'll see that due to the lack of "dodge" stat you're just put out of your misery fast. heck, even melee heavy encounter are just purely luck based if you don't have enough AGI, late game. (lvl 7 and onward)

The major drawback is how SQUISHY a vanguard feel, but it's mostly due to game mechanics. Everything rely on dodge, armor just give a pale damage reduction. Truth be told, Shield are more important than armor.
That's where it hurt.

What Vanguard (or others) need the most would be : a little boost to survivability for non AGI build. honestly, AGi even help you doing everything faster (dash), and survive A LOT BETTER (recover faster/immmune to off balance and staggered, especially crucial with skill like heedless swing) putting the FOR stat on the bench.
Perhaps :
- An innate resistance to crit chance
- Bonus to encumbrement since they are made to wear heavy armor but the malus to do so are just too high, and since your only choice is to put point into AGI, you can't really up fortitude to have more wieght. or make weight decided by STR or FOr, or Both (+1 enc. per 0.5 STR and FOR above 5?)
- Make heavy armor have their own dodge stat or add up to the existing dodge rating (like shield) + less chance of being staggered / off balance (and/or more chance of recoverign from them) since those status effect really destroy any tankyness (and guess what? it's AGI based), while being restricted heavily by classe (ie only vanguard, and maybe beacon), also to prevent ungodly dodge, put them with some stat restriction (preferably on FOR, something like 7 or 8 FOR required) to avoid stacking madly with AGI.
- Make FOR or STR have meaningfull competence to learn (nothing can compare to a dash + sure footed combo be it offensively, for kiting purpose, or to do recover each turn out of ennemy's range)
- A mix of all those ideas
- I don't know.

This will be more of a bandaid, so that the core mechanics are untouched. Honestly Melee/ranged dodge are just the master stats. It's expected when you pit multiple ennemies with 30+ HP against us, huge damage and scripted abilites. The game is more an "cheese them or outlive them".

I don't talk for beacon, they have a 2 square range, but i also dont really play them. if it were just me, i'd say they are weak, because even tho they have a bigger reach, it mean nothing against multiple ennemies, and they forego the usage of a shield. but that's just how i feel they are --- i don't play them. My friend does.

Also, and finally, for god's sake, put assail in the bludgeon category. Charge was bludgeon, why Assail, wich is the upgrade of it, change category? With how the game is done anyway, we can't really afford to put point in insight anyway.

Honestly, now that i'm a dodger god vanguard, the game is easy, save some encounter, particulary this damn water elemental (i didnt try it again at level 9, though). But it does not feel right. Nope. I really want my ironclad warrior, all in steel dressed, charging with his mighty shield forward, and sweeping everyone being on his way with heavy armament (and also getting beaten up, not being a dancer in armor).

I know that what i post is a mess, but it's rather hard to materialize exactly what i want to say, since i'm not a native english speaker.
Zephkiel
 
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Re: Feedback time!

Postby derek » Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:24 pm

No worries! I think your posts have been pretty clear, and heartfelt criticism is okay.

We've already started to look at possible adjustments to the Vanguard (and to a lesser extent the Beacon), including a couple of your suggestions. The trick will be finding the time to test and implement them, but I'm cautiously optimistic we'll be able to roll out at least one before too long.
derek
 
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